Traveller-digest     Wednesday, October 6 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1164



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Democracy and Traveller 
Re: Laserconstruction tool
Re: Ship's Lasers Design
Re Demos Imperica (Imperial Democracy)
[OT] Re DGP's AI
Re Captive Governments
Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1163
Re: BRS Class Emergency lifeboat - THUDDD 10 non-Entry
Re: Democracy and Traveller 
RE: Traveller Versions
RE: DGP question (OT)
Polite request for beta testers
Re: Ship's Lasers Design
Re: Laserconstruction tool
re: Annic Nova (longish)
RE: Democracy and Traveller
RE: The Nth Traveller Flamewar
Re: falkenbergs legions firing into civilians
Re: Ship's Lasers Design
Re: Shiont(h)y Belt
Re: Downport trouble...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:44:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller 

On 5 Oct 99, at 22:59, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> Check out a book called 'Heaven Belt' (author's name slips my limited mind
> at the moment).  One of the local cultures used what they called a
> 'Demarchy', a democratic anarchy tied together with computerised voting,
> to 'rule'.  They practically lived by straw polls, and *nobody* really
> liked media consultants, but treated them like nukes; the other side has
> 'em, so our side gets a few, too.  <grin>

IIRC the author's name is/was Joan D. Vinge.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:44:18 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Laserconstruction tool

On 6 Oct 99, at 15:15, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> From:           	"Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
> Date sent:      	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:10:09 -0400
> 
> > Hey, I just read your announcement that you have an FFS spreadsheet.
> > Could I get a copy of it?
> 
> There are two FFS spreadsheets I know of. Andy Akin's FFS2 for the design
> of starships and my T4 gunsmith for weapons. You can find them at:
> 
> FFS <http://www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller/> look in the operations T4GS
> <http://www.bits.org.uk/> look in the archives
> 
> Hope this helps

Antti Lahtinen has also made up some FFS1 spreadsheets for Excel, a 
starship, a small arms, and I think a heavy weapons one. These can be 
found on his site at <http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen/Traveller/> and 
are very popular with those of us on the TNE-RCES list.




- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 02:22:50 -0400
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Lasers Design

>Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:02:42 -0400
>From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Ship's Lasers Design
>
>> From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net>
>> 
>> I'm trying to custom design a space combat x-ray
>> laser for GURPS Traveller using Vehicles, 2nd Edition.
>[snip] 
>> The problem is there are no formulas for reducing
>> the weight/volume or increasing cost.
>> 
>> Does anyone know what/where this info is?
>
>It's not exactly intuitive, but it's there.  Volume for weapons is
>calculated in Chapter 3 (p42), buried in the description of weapon weight. 
>For simplicity, weapon volume in cf is almost always Wt/50, unless they are
>concealed in the structure.  GT weapons are generally not treated as being
>concealed (even spinal mounts, which seems a bit odd to me, but what the
>heck.)

Similarly, on p. 142 the weight (and therefore volume) of a "compact"
weapon is half that of a standard one ("L is 0.5 if compact option, 1
otherwise," where L is one factor of weight.) On p. 127, "Options:
Quadruple the cost of any "compact" beam weapons."

To date, GT beam weapons have generally used the compact option only two
TLs after introduction, when the cost drops to what the unmodified version
cost originally.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 03:16:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Demos Imperica (Imperial Democracy)

>> I think the real problem with democracy in Traveller isn't travel time, so
>> much as it is shear mass of people.   If each world gets a representative,
>> that's 10,000 reps.  Each one of these representatives "represents"
>>anywhere
>> from a few thousand to 10,000,000,000 people.   Can your really have an
>> accountable, representative official who takes into account the needs of
>> 10,000,000,000 people?   And if he is only one of 10,000
>>representatives, how
>> much real voice do the people have?    Democracy at this level would really
>> be a sham, an image or a convenient fiction.
>>
>What about online democracy?  If everyone has net.access, and the
>representatives are obliged to vote as their constituents direct, this
>might actually work-- mightn't it?  Of course, decisions would be made
>slowly; one couldn't respond to an immediate threat this way.

Look at regina subsector... assume that info flows along routes at J4 max
(and goes node to node), and from route nodes at J2; time per jump is 7
days mean including info transfer. Assume INSTANT decision making upon
reciept of the issue (not a logical assumption, but simplifies the math),
and that the issue is generated in the chambers at Regni on Regina.

We know Regina to be the subsector Capitol. Turnaround 0 days.
2 week turnaround: Forboldn, Hefry, ROUP, RUIE, Jenghe, Yori
4 week turnaround: Knorbes, Whanga, Feri, Pscias, Woshiers, Yurst
6 week turnaround: Alell, EFATE**, Uskya, Boughene, ENOPE, Shionthy,
Moughas, ALGINE, Rethe, Inthe, Pixie*, Beck's World,
8 week turnaround: Kinorb, Yres, Menorb, Yorbund, Keng
10 week turnaround: Heya, Dentus.

* Assumes straight run from Feri to Pixie, bypassing Boughene.
** Efate gets it via J2 off route faster than via X-Mail on route, even
though it is a route node!

So, assuming everyone gets the message, and every sophont has to make an
immediate snap decision, the subsector body cannot vote for at least 10
weeks on any issue AFTER all modifications (time for instructions from home
on all issues). And when you figure that that could take 8 days per jump,
rather than 7, we're up to 80 days, plus a reasonable time for decision
making at the far end of 5 days (including the polling), plus reasonable
turn around of 1 day per jump, we hit 94 days. Just for a subsector level
decision.

At these same rates, you can have a round trip time (assuming the ideal
conditions in force before the immediately above paragraph), messages to
mora have up to 34 weeks IDEAL travel out and back; there are 52 weeks, 1
day to the imperial year of 13 months of 4 weeks each... so 8.5 imperial
months round trip, or 2/3 of a year. that gives even a representative at
least 4 months to screw things up before he's recallable, and thus even
representation is bad.

And on the imperium wide ideals, it's 6 months via J4 from MORA to Capitol,
assuming I got the routes right... ONE WAY...


William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:09:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [OT] Re DGP's AI

>In MT Journal #4, Joe Fugate talked about a new game that DGP was working
>on.  There were even ads for it.  What happened to the mysterious "A.I." ??
>Anyone know?
>
Sanger didn't continue it. He's promised, repeatedly, that he will honor
pre-orders of AI with the system he publishes first... that may be a while,
if ever...
<IMHO Mode>I believe He'll not publish a system... since he can't afford
the loss of the pre-orders, and the money itself is long gone... so long as
he's making a "Reasonable Effort", he's not likely to even be forced to pay
back the pre-orders by most courts... </IMHO Mode>

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Captive Governments

>The other thing that gave me an urge to start tweaking worlds was the
>presence of Captive Governments.  There is no guarantee that a suitable
>"owner" can be found anywhere nearby, and I was reluctant to put them too
>far away, given that there were independent worlds in between.  Of course
>it's possible to handwave explanations of this government type that don't
>involve owner worlds, but I was attempting to read things in the most
>literal and traditionalist manner.  So I had to start fudging stuff by
>hand.
>
One other possibility... it might be a joint colony of SEVERAL neighbors.

Actually, another idea: it might actually be balkanized amongst several
neighbor's... Aurore from 2300 comes to mind...

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:35:22 +0100
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar

Ian Ferguson wrote:
> 
> Joseph Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
> <snipped>
> >I also wish that GT were metric -- it just feels more futuristic
> >and sensible and, for me at least, it's easier to use for things
> >like vehicle design.
> 
>         Tell that to the people at NASA!
> 
> Peez

ROTFLMAO .......

- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   #include<stddisclaimer.h>

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:37:30 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1163

>>>However my
>>>bigest gripe is the Imperial mesurements used in the game (as a metric
>>>user, how am I suppose to know that there are 2000lbs in a ton?!?!).

>Look it up?

I think my point is that as a logical system for mesurement, Imperial
dosent measure up (pun intended).

Metric is a system that allows a simple base 10 increase in scales. When I
designed my first GURPS vehical, I had to recalculate my mass due to the
problem mentioned above. And since the metre is base of all mesurements, 1m
x 1m x 1m of water equals 1 ton of mass *and* displacement . That is
something impossable with Imperial.

Dont get me wrong, I sometimes drop to Imperial for mesurements (my parents
where born before metric conersion), I sometimes use feet and inches, but
even they mostly use litres and grams and meters.

For Europeans, Canadians and Australians use this scale, and so did
Traveller.

Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:03:36 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: BRS Class Emergency lifeboat - THUDDD 10 non-Entry

At 00:47 06/10/1999 -0500, Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> >>Without THUDDD10, the BRS would never have existed (it has the
performance
>> >>that I wanted a lifeboat to have) but a lifeboat that size needs to carry
>> >>30 people, not one and a half. The other problem with the BRS is that it
>> >>isn't finished. It needs several days playing around with the
thrust/power
>> >>options to find a compromise that is significantly smaller. Finally, it
>> >>really ought to be 100MCr but I can't think how to make it that
expensive.
>
>Since I haven't seen the BRS, I can't give you AuricTech advice on
>jacking up a spacecraft's capabilities, along with price.... >;-)

It's 20dt, 76MCr and provides escape for *one* overlord + minion

Of course, I could have made it 100dt and jump capable, but that would be
silly - I was aiming for 10dt.

Phil Kitching
- --
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:13:24 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller 

> On 5 Oct 99, at 22:59, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Check out a book called 'Heaven Belt' (author's name slips my limited mind
> > at the moment).  One of the local cultures used what they called a
> > 'Demarchy', a democratic anarchy tied together with computerised voting,
> > to 'rule'.  They practically lived by straw polls, and *nobody* really
> > liked media consultants, but treated them like nukes; the other side has
> > 'em, so our side gets a few, too.  <grin>
> 
> IIRC the author's name is/was Joan D. Vinge.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't *sure*.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:54 +0100 
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

You wrote:
> I understand that some people don't like GURPS (every game has
> people that don't like it).  But I think this attitude that you
> have to trash GURPS because it isn't MT (or CT or TNE or
> whatever) and because SJG isn't GDW isn't a product of our
> better natures.

Its not that I don't like GURPS (I have  about  a  dozen  non-G:T
GURPS books) I was saying that *if* GDW had survived I would have
preferred it  if  GDW  had  evolved  Traveller  from  MT  onwards
(instead of TNE or IG's T4).

I was also trying to say that 2300AD was a more logical candidate
for being  "TNE-ised".  The  comment  about  GDW's  house  system
becoming a GURPS replacement was *not*  to  be  taken  completely
seriously.  It was ment as a friendly dig at the G:T fans on this
list.

However, if I have given offense to you or anyone else on the TML
with these comments then I apologise.

Regards PLST

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:26:03 +0100 
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: DGP question (OT)

Tom wrote:
> In MT Journal #4, Joe Fugate talked about a new game that DGP
> was working on.  There were even ads for it.  What happened to
> the mysterious "A.I." ??
> Anyone know?

I heard that AI was delayed 'cos of a hard disk crash wiping  out
6 months work.  Then when Roger Sanger got hold of DGP  he  tried
to develop his own multi gerne GURPS-like system ... one  of  the
initial gernes was to be AI.

Roger's development plan involved setting up a mailing  list  and
inviting TML members onto it.  There they would write it for him.
However, without proper  project  management  it  never  achieved
anything (despite some heroic efforts from the  participants).  I
know this because I was one of the unfortunates who signed up for
this for a while.  Curiously there was no AI material from  which
to start from and we had a clean slate.  I've often wondered what
happened to the work Joe Fugate did on AI ... Roger didn't appear
to have it, just the basic concept.

Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:08:44 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Polite request for beta testers

Hi, I'm currently updating my T4 Gunsmith spreadsheet (excel 5) to include
a GURPS conversion. As some may know, the sheet designs weapons
according to 2nd ed Fire, Fusion and Steel. Now my knowledge of GURPS
weapons design (and VE2 in general) is somehat limited and I would like
a few (about 5 or 6) people who do know something to have a look at the
conversion routines for me. Specifically the damage conversion seems a
little off at higher values and the 1/2d and max range conversions don't
seem quite right. So if you would some kind souls would like to help me
out, could they please email me.

BTW. This sheet has **not** been licenced by SJG so I can't release
it yet (but you can get the version without the GURPS conversions from
the BITS website), but I'm stumped and would like some help.


Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:54:22 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Lasers Design

Found 'em!

Thank you, Tom Schoene and Thomas Bont, for pointing
out the location of the rules. I'm too used to FFS's
consolidating construction info in tables and was
completely blind to the _text_ formatting.

By the by, everyone, Mr. Bont (aka Felix) has really
done a great job on his GURPS Character Maker
software. If you play (or GM) GT, do yourself a favor
and check it out. It's *very* easy to customize the
database to your own campaign (I doing it now). He
also has the equivalent software for GT ships, which
is also easy to customize.

Just go to http://www.felixcafe.com/ and follow the
GURPS link.

Thanks again, guys!

David

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:20:06 -0500
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Laserconstruction tool

What's the difference between the FFS1 spreadsheets and the FFS2 sheets?

Obviously you prefer FFS1 but why?

- -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Laserconstruction tool


On 6 Oct 99, at 15:15, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> From:           "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
>
> > Hey, I just read your announcement that you have an FFS spreadsheet.
> > Could I get a copy of it?
>
> There are two FFS spreadsheets I know of. Andy Akin's FFS2 for the design
> of starships and my T4 gunsmith for weapons. You can find them at:
>
> FFS <http://www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller/> look in the operations T4GS
> <http://www.bits.org.uk/> look in the archives
>
> Hope this helps

Antti Lahtinen has also made up some FFS1 spreadsheets for Excel, a
starship, a small arms, and I think a heavy weapons one. These can be
found on his site at <http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen/Traveller/> and
are very popular with those of us on the TNE-RCES list.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:38:02 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Annic Nova (longish)

I was thinking of the fate of Annic Nova's previous crew. One poster had
thought that a child was the last survivor, and died alone somehow
after everyone had succumbed to the plague they picked up somewhere.
I think there to the story than this.

By looking over the contents of the various bedrooms, I estimate 
that the complement of the Annic Nova had been between twelve and
fourteen people, at least four of them children. (IIRC we had
seven in-use adult sleeping places, four children's beds, one
purported bedroom (one or two people) that had been sterilized thus
indicating it had been in use, and the death room which may or 
may not have been an in-use bedroom before the tragedy).

IIRC we have four bodies (three adults and one child). Where did
the others go?

In my opinion, Annic Nova was abandoned by somewhere between
six and ten survivors, including a number of adults, by means of a third
ship's boat that is, of course, not present when the adventurers
discover the ship.

Here's my "evidence":

1. There was little portable equipment in evidence, certainly nothing
like a usual "ship's locker" would have. Indicates: someone packed the
portable gear aboard an escape craft.

2. The ship was in good order, almost nothing out of place. 
Indicates: the ship was not abandoned in a panic, and it was
not occupied for a long time period by unsupervised children.
(Granted, Spacer children may have it ingrained very early to
keep things cleaned up and put away.)

3. As presented, Annic Nova's design requires a ship's boat
to be moved from a pylon to a docking berth before any
acceleration can take place. This docking berth is not only
empty, but the doors at that berth (IIRC) show signs of some
of the only damage on this well-preserved ship.
Indicates: A third ship's boat was present, perhaps one with
engines better than the other two (for better than the .1-.2 G
acceleration the others are capable of when attached to the
ship). The pilot was perhaps unfamiliar with undocking procedures,
causing him to damage the doors while leaving with a load of
supplies, equipment, and survivors.

4. The near-empty cargo bay.
Indicates: Inconclusive. Did the survivors clear out a cargo hold full
of supplies and equipment when they abandoned ship, or did they
simply not find a profitable cargo at the port of call that lead to
the tragedy? If the former, again we have an adult or adults 
probably leading the escape.

5. No mention is made of the plague being contagious beyond
the initial infection of the adventurers after the Death Room is
opened.
Indicates: It takes some time after the death of the host for this
plague to sporulate. Prompt disposal or preservation of the body
should halt or delay spread of the contagion.

My take on events aboard the Annic Nova:

1. Annic Nova calls at an unknown planet. Some members of the crew
are unknowingly infected with a plague that shows no symptoms for
several days. Possibly: one or two members of the crew brought
an item on board that carried the plague spores, and were first to
fall sick.

2. Annic Nova comes out of jump, and some members of the crew
fall sick. Death can be almost immediate once symptoms appear.
A crewman (probably the leader of the ship's complement) sterilizes
the stateroom occupied by the initial victims, hoping to eliminate the
source of the infection. The body or bodies may have been eliminated
in the process, especially if they are already dead. If not, the bodies
may have been moved to the Death Room (either to die, or with some 
autopsy or burial intent).

3. Other members of the crew fall sick, and are placed in the 
Death Room. A child places a warning sign on the door, probably
after another child falls ill. The newly stricken crew members
die quickly. Some of these crew members may be those who
handled the sterilization of the initial infection room - and the
leader of the ship's complement was almost certainly among
them, if he was not one of the first to die.

4. With no indication of how the new crew infections occurred,
the current, somewhat inexperienced captain loses his nerve.
Instead of sterilizing the Death Room (and possibly ending the
contagion cycle), he leads the remaining crew complement in
abandoning the ship. Supplies and equipment are brought along,
but only the "big ship's boat" (the missing third, centrally-docked
craft) is taken. Some minor damage to Annic Nova occurs during
the undocking maneuver.

5. Annic Nova is sent, probably by computer command, into
the depths of space as a plague ship. Her indecipherable
transmissions are warn-away signals, but some error in the
computer controls has made her follow some unknown course
through jump-space, rather than simply float off into the void.

6. The survivors make landing on a planet, either uninhabited
or beyond the ken of the Third Imperium. It is up to question
whether they succumbed to the plague, or whether they have
founded a tiny colony and survived.

<mst3kmode>
Looking up at Cambot: What do you think, sirs?
</mst3kmode>

I'm doing the evidenciary details from memory, I may have the
location of the damaged exterior door wrong, or the body count.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:43:52 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Democracy and Traveller

It seems to me that much of the current debate regarding democracy
in the 3I is being generated by the lack of a clear, common 
definition of democracy.  Some posts have been refering to a
participatory democracy (Kiri, IIRC), while others have been dealing
with the modern idea of a representative democracy.  The question of
scale, or level of government, is also relevant.  For example, here
in Canada the government of one province (Quebec) wishes to secede 
from the country (Canada).  As a democracy, should the entire country
vote?  Just Quebecers?  If Quebec decided to stay, could certain 
regions within Quebec secede?  What about a town?  A farm?  Some guy
in a hut in the wilderness?

Meanwhile, the worlds in the Imperium have all sorts of governments.
This would not in itself prevent democracy above the level of the
individual world.  If ~10,000 representatives proves to be unweildly,
each subsector (~300) or sector (~20) can provide one.  These 
representatives can be elected by representatives of worlds or
subsectors, or may be inherited nobility.  Is it democracy?  That 
depends on how you look at it.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:02:56 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: The Nth Traveller Flamewar

So, all we need to remember for the use of Imperial/American units
are the following conversion factors:
16, 2000, 12, 3, 1760, 5280, 640, 8, 2, 4, 231, 2240, 10, 20
(plus a few more).  Oh, and you have to remember which goes with 
which :)

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:25:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: falkenbergs legions firing into civilians

At 11:35 AM 10/6/1999 +1000, you wrote:

>As you can see, this stuff has been lifted by both Pournelle and Drake. 
>This gives us a clue as to a technique we can use in scenario design -
>stealing stuff from history and literature.  The traditional literary
>source to steal from is of course Shakespeare.  I'm not quite sure how to
>do "Hamlet in Space", though.  "The Tempest" might work.  There may be
>elements of it in "Forbidden Planet", though it's been years since I've
>seen it.

Hamlet:  Instead of a ghost, a holographic recording of the dead king
triggered by Hamlet's approach.  The King spells out his concerns about his
brother.

Forbidden Planet was pretty much a direct rip of The Tempest.  For
traveller, the Krell city becomes an Ancient site, and the id monster an
unconscious psionic attack.
- --

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:49:43 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ship's Lasers Design

>Just go to http://www.felixcafe.com/ and follow the
>GURPS link.

The Felix Cafe link doesn't seem to work.  The following
link works fine though:

    http://209.39.36.25/

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:18:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Shiont(h)y Belt

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> "Flatlander" gives a very good description.

Hm.  Not that I recall (it's been years).  Then again, GP hulls have sufficiently weird characteristics that it doesn't really matter.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:47:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Downport trouble...

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > ObTrav: Since here, at least, network traffic grows faster than the
> > pipes can be built, I wonmder what a mature TL-15 or 16 commnet looks
> > like. Is everything wired together?
> 
> > Have they decided that they can really walk over and check the state
> > of the coffee pot rather than hitting the Coffee-server and checking
> > it's sensor readings, reducing network traffic? Is it safe to plant
> > roses in your backyard before getting it blue staked? T4, in M0
> > postulated ubitiquous low power wireless links, and computers
> > everywhere.

> I expect that they'll have gone back to a "hierachical" model of sorts.
> Your coffee pot may well be networked. But it will talk only on your
> house/apartment net. It'll be possible to access it from outside *if*
> you are allowed thru the firewall.
> 
> Likewise, there may be building level networks for office buildings and
> apartment buildings. And so on up thru "neighborhood", city, region,
> and planetary nets.

Ahh, not merely computers in every doorknob, but a router, too!

> At each level only traffic that *needs* to go betwwen nets reaches that
> level of the network. And there'd be a lot of caching for info
> resources and the like. So rather than hundreds or thousands of packets
> carrying copies of that neat MP999 file from half a world away, the
> regional net will notice that there's another request for the same
> file, so it'll supply the second thru 9999th from the cached copy.
> Ditto at the city, and maybe even neighborhood level. This requires
> more storage, but less bandwidth. And I expect that storage will be
> *more* than up to it.
> 
> In fact, I expect that "web pages" will likely get duplicated bewteen
> cities/regions, rather than accessed directly. It saves *way* so much
> bandwidth that it's the logical way to handle it. So web pages would be
> "mirrored" all over the place.

Running into the eternal problem of copy latentcy...are you sure that
the copy you've mirrored is up to date, and the mirrors of the mirrors,
etc on down the chain. Granted, there are things with checksums you can
do to confirm it, so multiple mirrors are useful, but there will be
problems with this, particularly regarding time-sensitive information.

Meaning a good hacker can spoof the local copy of information for
whatever nefarious purposes they want...'The Sting' anyone? ;-)
 
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1164
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